Discussion Utilisateur:WhisperToMe

Un article de Wikipédia, l'encyclopédie libre.

Bienvenue sur Wikipédia, WhisperToMe.

N'hésite pas à consulter comment modifier une page pour de premières indications sur la création et l'édition des pages sous Wikipédia. Tu peux également consulter la FAQ et faire tes essais dans le bac à sable.
N'hésite pas à consulter les recommandations à suivre (règle de neutralité, copyright...).
Tu peux aussi laisser tes questions au bistro local.

Pour signer tes messages, tu peux taper 3 fois le caractère ~. Avec 4 tildes, en plus de ta "signature", seront affichées la date et l'heure. Nous utilisons souvent des sigles parfois mystérieux : tu pourras trouver leur explication dans Wikipédia:Jargon.

Si tu viens d'une autre Wikipédia, n'oublie pas de mettre les liens vers tes autres pages perso.

Des informations plus complètes sont disponibles à Wikipédia:Bienvenue.

-- Céréales Killer 5 déc 2003 à 07:06 (CET)

Hi Whisper. I think the current article title is still not the best :-))) But I am sure someone will think of the right one. Welcome around here. Anthere 5 déc 2003 à 07:49 (CET)~

Hello. :D WhisperToMe 14 déc 2003 à 10:45 (CET)

[modifier] Licence

Pourrais-tu renseigner la licence de Image:BurjalArab.jpg s'il te plait ? Merci Tipiac 29 jun 2004 à 19:10 (CEST)

[modifier] Glenat

Hello :)

Sorry, but i don't own the One Piece manga, so i don't really know the characters names ^_^

I'll try to ask about other participants to the manga project.

Ryo (XYZ) 15 oct 2004 à 09:29 (CEST)

Salut, j'ai déjà commencé à vérifier les noms ; (résultats dans la page de discussion de One Piece) ; je continue dès que j'ai en ai le temps. nocmahr 15 oct 2004 à 13:49 (CEST)

[modifier] Template manga

Bonjour :)

Content de constater que mon modèle:Série manga sert à quelque chose ^_-

Ryo (XYZ) 16 déc 2004 à 09:46 (CET)

[modifier] Sailor Moon

Sorry, i don't know for Sailor Moon names either....

Ryo (XYZ) 17 déc 2004 à 09:50 (CET)

[modifier] Kimagure orange road

Bonsoir.

J'avais mis les noms en premier car c'est la tradition japonaise. Est-il envisageable de revenir en arrière ? --Manu 24 déc 2004 à 19:35 (CET)

[modifier] Le Château ambulant

Bonjour. Dans ta dernière mise à jour du synopsis, tu indiques que Howl est le nom du magicien en anglais et en japonais. Je croyais justement que le nom 'Hauru était la transcription phonétique en japonais de Howl, notamment du fait qu'il n'y a pas de lettre L en japonais. Vincent alias Fourvin (Discuter) 24 jun 2005 à 10:45 (CEST)

[modifier] 鋼の錬金術師 (de son sous titre "fullmetal alchemist")

miaou

navré de te contredire, mais le vrai titre de l'oeuvre est bien Hagane no renkinjutsushi (voir l'article japonais correspondant : ja:鋼の錬金術師) fullmetal alchemist n'est qu'un simple sous titre, même si c'est le plus souvent retenu en occident.

Il est d'ailleurs amusant de noter que ce fameux sous titre, que beaucoup de gens imaginent etre le titre principal, n'est pour ainsi dire pas prononcé dans l'article japonais (juste une fois vers la fin, section ja:鋼の錬金術師#アニメ)

cordialement, Darkoneko (♬) 6 août 2005 à 23:07 (CEST)

(or in english ?) meow

sorry to tell you that, but Hagane no renkinjutsushi (see japanese article ja:鋼の錬金術師) is the main and true title of this manga. "fullmetal alchemist" is merely a sub/second title, although it seems to be more knowns in occident.

More, this "famous" second title appears only once, lost in the middle of the japanese article (there)

Darkoneko (♬) 6 août 2005 à 23:18 (CEST)

If this series is published in France, it is most likely "Fullmetal Alchemist" - The title was moved to show the French convention. May I move the page back? WhisperToMe 7 août 2005 à 01:33 (CEST)

I don't really like that idea (because I prefer japanese titles :), but if you intend to do it anyway, please don't forget to change the redirect pages so they direct to the new title.

Darkoneko (♬) 7 août 2005 à 09:57 (CEST)

Bonsoir. Renommer la page tous les 2 jours ne sert à rien. J'ai donc bloqué la possibilité de renommage sur la page Fullmetal Alchemist. Merci de vous exprimer sur la page de discussion. -- Fabien1309 (D) 22 décembre 2005 à 22:26 (CET)

[modifier] Naruto characters

The Naruto characters article seems confused in its naming order.

So which naming order does Manga Kana use in the French editions? Do they say "Naruto Uzumaki" or do they say "Uzumaki Naruto"? Whichever order is used in the French manga should be used in the French Wikipedia. WhisperToMe 17 décembre 2005 à 05:43 (CET)

Naruto articles should be handled, because there are a lot and not very beautiful.. But I have no time for this :/ GôTô ¬¬ 17 décembre 2005 à 09:30 (CET)

[modifier] Utena

please, when your rename a page, do not forget to change ALL the redirect : there are 2 double redirect right now. DarkoNeko 만화 30 mars 2006 à 08:57 (CEST)

[modifier] Zatch Bell

Hello,

I speak very bad english, so scuse me if you don't understand... I think it's better to have a little paragraph on the author in the article, even if it's an article on he. This paragraph is just a recall of few elements to understand quickly who is this person, important for the article, and the lector can increase if he want with the article Makoto Raiku, which is bigger and more détailed. But if you are really allergic to this paragraph, you can erase if you want :-) CJane 30 mars 2006 à 11:39 (CEST)

[modifier] Makoto Raiku's name

Hi WhisperToMe,

Nice to meet you. I know, I speak Japanese :)

I know the en: Wikipedia follow this rule but the French one have adopted a model, called {{nji}}, that is used to not disturb French readers. Along with displaying the kanji, it display a hint note telling that the kanji are in occidental order and also display a link to a page explaning that the French wikipedia decided to note all japanese names in occidental order (Wikipédia:Nom japonais), including their kanjis (because it allows to not precise that the name comes first, either saying it explicitly or replicating the rōmaji name in japanese order with them). For exemple, you can look Jun'ichirō Koizumi. There are still some articles that has been left in the japanese order so when we fall on one, like this one, we correct them, to be consistent.

I know it may seems silly for you but well, that's just the way it is, I follow the decisions, like anybody :).

Cheers,

Eden ✍ 31 mars 2006 à 11:42 (CEST)

"What would be a lot better is to simply say that the kanji is in reverse order."

We have someting like this but only for korean and chinese names. It has been thought that japaneses names were now more often pronounced in western order and that it would be more consistent to put the kanjis in the same order.

"Where is the project page for this?"

This rule is extracted from Aide:Transcription_du_japonais#Les noms de personnes (Help:Transcription of Japanese#People's names) which point you to "Modèle:Nom japonais inversé" (Template:Reversed japanese name), the full name for {{nji}}. Its text span is "les kanjis sont dans l'ordre conventionnel occidental (prénom nom)" (Kanjis are in standard occidental order (first name family name)) and the model's documentation states this 3 times, in case of ^^;

Cheers,

Eden ✍ 3 avril 2006 à 08:33 (CEST)

[modifier] Atelier de toponymie

Bonjour ou bonsoir,

Je t’informe qu’un atelier de toponymie est ouvert, depuis juillet, aux fins notamment de déterminer si dans le titrage de certains articles concernant des villes, Etats ou régions non francophones, il faut privilégier l'appellation « française » traditionnelle (Birmanie, Biélorussie, Tokyo, Kyoto... ) ou bien au contraire lui préférer une version réputée étrangère (Myanmar, Belarus... ), une translittération diacritiquée (Rīga, İstanbul... ) voire une transcription à l’aide de diacritiques (Islâmâbâd… ) ou de « macrons » (Tōkyō, Kyōtō…)

Faut-il titrer Mumbai en place de Bombay ? Biel plutôt que Bienne ? Ou à l’inverse Calcutta et non Kolkata ?

Tu as contribué à l’un des articles concernés.

Ton avis ou tes remarques seront précieux au développement de l’encyclopédie collaborative sur laquelle nous travaillons tous ensemble.

Tu peux nous rejoindre sur la page consacrée à ce débat : Discussion Wikipédia :Atelier de toponymie.

Les discussions s’y poursuivent avant un éventuel vote. Ceci est un message circulaire adressé à différents contributeurs ayant participé à des articles en cause, prioritairement recensés au début de cette initiative. Cordialement, Sroulik 24 août 2007

[modifier] RE : Mia Ikumi

Hi WhisperToMe,

I reverted your edit because I thought your comment « No opposition on the discussion talk pages... » refered to the talk page of Mia Ikumi, which doesn't exist.

I don't think it's a bad idea to switch the kanjis in japanese names, but if you want to do so :

Replace the template {{nji}}, because it displays a hint explaining why the kanjis are not using the japanese order, as Eden explained you above.
You should probably post a message on Wikipédia:Le Bistro, to ask people to write their viewpoints on Discussion_Aide:Transcription_du_japonais#The_switching_of_the_kanji Discussion_Projet:Japon_et_culture_japonaise#The_switching_of_the_kanji, as few people go on these pages.

Svartkell - ? 13 septembre 2007 à 23:17 (CEST)

Ok, thank you Svartkell - ? 13 septembre 2007 à 23:45 (CEST)

[modifier] Kanji

Hi,

I have just seen the message you left on the Portail Japon et Culture japonaise. You're right to point out the problem but, actually, it was decided a long time ago by a few members without any consent from the japanese speaking community on wikipedia:fr. I dare say it's going to be very hard to make things change now. Thanks Onnagirai 喋る 14 septembre 2007 à 10:05 (CEST)

[modifier] A few points about the English language

I am not posting this to the talk page because this is more of a matter that has to do with the use of the English language than the actual discussion at hand.

Now, I will clarify that the phrase "However, I must say that I don't give a shit to what you've decided for Wiki fr." sounds somewhat harsh or hostile to English words, since "Shit" is a swear-word. It is better to say "I do not regard what you decided..." as it uses more formal and cordial language :) WhisperToMe 14 septembre 2007 à 15:41 (CEST)

Thanks for the English course, fellow. I know exactly what I said, thanks for confirming. If you were more involved in the discussions on Wiki fr, you would know that it's not so far from my usual diplomatic skills in French. And if you were more involved in such discussions, it would have been easier for me to consider what you have decided about Wikipédia. Arnaudus 14 septembre 2007 à 18:42 (CEST)

And, by the way, the rules here are that all discussions should be in French. Most of French people don't speak English, and we shouldn't discuss about changes in Wikipédia in English. You must use the English "Bistro" Wikipédia:Bistro des non-francophones/en, which is the only page where you're allowed to speak English. I think your questions on the regular "Discussion" pages might be deleted in the future if you don't respect that. Arnaudus 14 septembre 2007 à 18:47 (CEST)

[modifier] WhisperToMe encore?

Avez-vous le temps de lire ce commentaire?

Wikipédia:Le_Bistro/13_septembre_2007#Mod.C3.A8le:Nom_japonais_invers.C3.A9

Merci. --Ooperhoofd 15 septembre 2007 à 04:35 (CEST)

Je peux utiliser un traducteur automatique dans certains cas. Si j'ai besoin de mots complexes, j'emploierai le Bistro. WhisperToMe 15 septembre 2007 à 07:20 (CEST)

Veuillez laisser le juron hors de futures discussions dans n'importe quelle langue. Si vous devez employer juron, s'assurer que ce n'est pas une attaque personnelle. Puisque vous savez les connotations des mots, c'est mon conseil. Peut-être j'ai eu la langue trop forte, mais je veux me concentrer sur la question. WhisperToMe 15 septembre 2007 à 07:36 (CEST)

It is perfectly fine if you don't speak French; there are only 200M French speakers on Earth, we can't expect anyone to speak a proper French. However, I think the general trend on the Wiki fr: is to consider that you should not participate in discussions if you don't speak French. Why? Because each wikipedia is independent. Whatever the choices made on Wiki en: or jp:, Wiki fr can decide to use whatever order. Personnaly, I think the English wiki made a lot of (very) stupid decisions, such as accepting the "fair use" pictures, etc. But I would not dare to go on the Village Pump and to claim that they are wrong, and that I decided they should change.

Concerning the use of "I don't give a shit", this is the kind of problems that can appear between non-native English speakers. I consider it's a common US phrase, it is not an insult towards you. It exactly reflects what I thought at that time, which is not different from what I'm thinking right now: please, get involved in a project where you can communicate easily with people; you can go on Wiki en: or jp:; why trying to change wiki fr: when you're even unable to speak French? This doesn't make sense, IMHO. Most of people who answer your remark on the Bistro seemed to be pissed off by your behavior, I think it's just better you know that; and you won't be welcome if you keep on speaking English or automatically-translated French, the same way people would be pissed of if I was trying to participate in French to WP jp:... Hope this would clear any misunderstandings. Arnaudus 15 septembre 2007 à 10:40 (CEST)

[modifier] Samurai_deeper_kyo

Dear sir,

The French and francophone people have their own conventions; if you cannot understand that you should rather avoid editing and renaming. Thank you. ♦ Pabix 15 septembre 2007 à 04:46 (CEST)

[modifier] Kiichi Miyazawa

Please see fr:Wikipédia:Le Bistro#Correction_regarding_Kiichi_Miyazawa - I have started a discussion on it. I would like for you to read this first. WhisperToMe 13:50, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

If you think it is absolutely necessary to indicate the separation, please reply on the Bistro talk page. I would also add that I have discussed with people who are fluent with the Japanese language at en:Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(Japan-related_articles)/misc18#Apostrophes_to_distinguish_ei_and_e.27i_and_ii_and_i.27i, and THEY said it was not necessary. WhisperToMe 29 septembre 2007 à 15:59 (CEST)

Since you made no further comments, I assume that you have no objections to me moving the page to Kiichi Miyazawa. :) WhisperToMe 2 octobre 2007 à 09:20 (CEST)

Since *no one* made any comment on Wikipédia:Le_Bistro/27_septembre_2007#Correction_regarding_Kiichi_Miyazawa, I assume they don't care what you said and chose to ignore the section :) Go annoy your own wiki, please... - DarkoNeko le chat にゃ 2 octobre 2007 à 13:42 (CEST)

Rules used on wp-EN (Manual of style) are rules (or recommendations) only for wp-EN. Each Wikipedia is independent from the others, and wp-FR builds his own rules, and its own Manual of style... Hégésippe | ±Θ± 2 octobre 2007 à 23:32 (CEST)

[modifier] Adresse email

Bonjour,

J'ai renseigné mon adresse email dans mes préférences, il suffit de cliquer sur "Envoyer un message à cet utilisateur" (dans la boite à outils à gauche) quand vous êtes sur ma page utilisateur. En particulier, ça évite de devoir donner mon adresse email en clair :-) Arnaudus 8 octobre 2007 à 18:25 (CEST)

OHH! Je suis désolé!: pas de mal :-) Arnaudus 10 octobre 2007 à 09:29 (CEST)

[modifier] Question

I've got a question : [1] (I could translate it if you want). VIGNERON * ^discut. 19 mars 2008 à 22:40 (CET)

[modifier] Japanese name template poll

Hello,

I have no time to translate all the discussion. Of what I said along my votes, the gist is that kanji names should be treated like Japanese quotations and thus left unchanged; anyway kanji are primarily relevant to people able to read them, and these are likely to disagree name reversal in the kanji version. In my opinion your template proposal does stress that « there is something special with Japanese names » ; I suggested that an automatic note could be added to make it perfect clear to the many readers who will have no idea of what is going on.

On the discussion, DarkoNeko bluntly said you annoyed him greatly and it would influence his opinion ; I was surprised enough to check old discussions. To be frank I found that you had been very vocal about the question (according to my feel of French wiki standards, at any rate) and I understand how it could have alienated some people. Nonetheless, however offhand your ways may be felt, it has nothing to do with your point being relevant or not : this is what I wrote.

Please go on with the Bistro des non-francophones if you need help with translating.

Regards, Bertrand Bellet (d) 21 mars 2008 à 20:06 (CET)

[modifier] Darkoneko

May be, you should modified the other proposals so they match the same format. May be one example on top of each proposal (same example different ways could be good) Less pov... Then you'll have to inform everybody that already gave his view to change it eventually... - Zil (d) 21 mars 2008 à 23:37 (CET)

it should be fine. So now you have to inform everybody that participate in the sondage of the change on their discussion page... - Zil (d) 22 mars 2008 à 00:02 (CET)

I have done some uniformisation. I removed methode plus proche du japonas moderne pov... - Zil (d) 22 mars 2008 à 00:14 (CET)

[modifier] Herculebot and Nagasarete Airantō

Hi,

if you look at the diff of my bot you can see it didn't touch the name. When I look at your diff I see you forgot the first name.

You where right to change from circumflex to macrons. It's the convention in this wiki to use macrons (but because it can't be done easyly with french keybords there are numerous mistakes in articles ;) --Hercule ^Discuter 20 avril 2008 à 19:57 (CEST)

[modifier] Wikipédia:Sondage/la représentation des noms en japonais

Hi,

Don't you speak french?

Because you initiated it you can close it. I don't know how it must be done; otherwise you can't let a message at the WP:BISTRO. I'm sure that someone will then proceed to a quick closure :p

--Hercule ^Discuter 21 avril 2008 à 09:11 (CEST)

You can say, to be factual:

La représentation 'Prénom Nom (Kanji Nom Kanji Prénom translittération Hepburn) remporte le plus de suffrages.

Or if you want to say it like a recommandation:

La représentation 'Prénom Nom (Kanji Nom Kanji Prénom translittération Hepburn) est à favoriser.

--Hercule ^Discuter 21 avril 2008 à 09:59 (CEST)

You asked on my discussion page : Do you mind if I begin fixing templates of Japanese name articles? Well, I agreed with your proposal but I advise you to wait : what you had is a poll and not a final decision, contributors disagreeing with your proposal may still object. (More later, this requires to be thought and phrased.) Bertrand Bellet (d) 21 avril 2008 à 17:26 (CEST)

First, please note that the use of the template {{Nom japonais inversé}} ("reversed Japanese name") was actually discontinued before you launched the poll (because some people already disagreed with the reversal) : now {{Japonais}} ('Japanese") must be used. This one allows the formatting recommended by most in the poll : 1) French order : 1st Name ~ Surname / Kanji in Japanese order : Surname ~1st Name ~ 3) Hepburn transcription in Japanese order, and adds a link towards the page about Japanese transcription issues. (The link is a question mark.) It is used for instance on the page Jun'ichirō Koizumi.

However the template with reversal was used on somewhat 750 to 1000 pages : to fix things by hand would be a big and tedious task. We could ask for a bot, but to reverse kanji properly it will require a machine-readable indication of where the limit stands between the kanjis for the 1st name and the kanjis for the surname. I checked a number of instances and it seems that a space was regularly used between the two parts. So far, so good. But since the reversal of kanji is quite odd, I wonder if it was really done all the time : even if the template announced a "reversal", it may have been used by inattention for a Japanese name in Japanese order (I cannot check for I do not read kanji except a few). To sum up : is the current data consistent and reliable on this, so as to allow automatic processing ? Besides, I have no clue if such a bot can really be made : I have no working knowledge of computer programming.

If emendations are to be made by hand, I understood that you may be willing to work on it - but you must announce how you will proceed. If you can read kanji, this is evident of course, but your English user page does not display any indication of proficiency in Japanese. If you don't, I suppose you would use formal criteria, but how exactly to be sure to avoid mistakes ? This is quite important, for if a decision process is started, you should not only explain that something must be done, but also how you will achieve it properly.

Regards, Bertrand Bellet (d) 21 avril 2008 à 18:24 (CEST)